Sexy Healthy Wealthy

SO…..if anybody’s reading this….my little sister Tiffany (I call her Tiffy Poo-Poo) responded with a comment to this post.  Now I’m not going to lie to ya–I drive my family crazy sometimes because of this.  And Tiffany is one of my favorites (I’m the oldest of 6) because this girl is not afraid to speak her mind to me, which I LOVE.  So, I’m responding in a post because I think it shows the complexities and dynamics of family members who leave–or try to leave–the Church, and besides- I have much better answers now than I did a year ago.  So, ummm……hi, internet!  Welcome to the family! Here we go.

Tiff : “Ummm what house did you grow up in. Yeah my mother had lots of kids because she wanted to and guess what I wouldn’t be here if she didn’t want to. My parents lived off of welfare for a while but made it on their own and know how to manage money very well. They never went bankrupt. They had 6 six kids and learned how to manage money but you have 0 kids and still can’t fathum how to manage money.”

Me: I am the oldest, Tiff is the fourth.  We did grow up quite differently.  I actually wasn’t trying to talk personally about MY economic situation growing up, but more of a general Utah/Mormon thing–which is why I quote Utah/Mormon articles rather than, like, my diary.  But with that being said, my parents did what was expected of them and they had kids in college.  So I remember the lean years whereas Tiff was around more when they were established. 

And yes, my mom did want all of us….although between you and me, I could have done without one or two-  hahaha, just kidding!  We actually do have a great time together.  Now this line is significant :”They had 6 six kids and learned how to manage money but you have 0 kids and still can’t fathum how to manage money.”  And Tiffany–now I can see what the problem is with me, and my lack of money…. and what is so different out here that you don’t understand.  I got married at 21, BJ was 20.  College isn’t nearly as big of a deal out there, BJ was the first to graduate in his family.  We both worked in Salt Lake for a couple of years before deciding to go to school.  We went down to Southern Utah University in Cedar City, Utah.  If anybody’s been to Zion’s National Park, or driven from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas, Cedar City is a small town inbetween.  Every time I would drive through there, I would say “HOW could anybody live here?  There are NO JOBS.”  Well, it turned out, I was right.  BJ had done a year there before, so we decided for him to finish up there.  I made a stack of resumes and went door to door down the main streets.  Nobody was hiring, and I ended up at a call center making nearly minimum wage.  Because we had made “too much” in Salt Lake the previous year, we didn’t qualify for any grants and paid for school ourselves, me supporting BJ through school.  We did a lot of things to get by, and we didn’t qualify for a grant the second year either (from Salt Lake $).  It was HARD.  I worked the call center, temp jobs, we had a business cleaning theaters…we scrambled but WE MADE IT.  Other married couples came from SL, and left because they just couldn’t afford it. One pawned their car radio for gas $$ to get home.  It was during this time that everybody was telling us to have kids, to help us out financially.  When you have a child in college, the state pays for it and you qualify for more things.  I felt uncomfortable with having kids when I couldn’t afford it on my own.  I got a lot of crap for that.  “If you wait until you can AFFORD it, then you NEVER will.”  So yeah, we didn’t have extra money to kick around.  But here’s what was said to us about it:  We didn’t have money because of our LIFESTYLE.  Because we drank.  Because we didn’t go to church.  In fact… there was one who was very vocal about this–you know who I’m talking about, Tiff–who said that was our “problem”–and if we only went to church and were more righteous we would learn to budget our money “properly” (meaning no alcohol, coffee, etc.) THAT was the reason.  (Incidentally–this person is in his 20’s, 3 kids…and now has $150,000 just in credit card debt alone. Yes, he goes to church. And yes, the big “B” is looming).  And I’m not angry at this person for thinking or saying so…that’s the belief that is reinforced in the culture, one that I truly believed in myself.  So I have been looked down upon all these years and I have felt bad about this and I took it to heart….I believed you all.  But guess what?

THAT WASN’T IT.  Tiff, do you realize that out here nobody is expected to get married in college…let alone start a family?  People here don’t have as many kids, and they PAY for their children to go to college.  They PAY for their children to live in dorms.  They PAY for their meal plans.  They BUY them cars, to get by. (Strictly speaking of members of my race/class).  And they expect them to graduate–even Grad school!  EVEN girls!!!  Tiffany, you are 25 years old and you have been married for 4 years and have a child….this is not typical out here.  And nobody is freaking out about it.  Walk around BYU campus and you hear 19 year old girls crying that they are almost 20 and not married–lamenting that they are “so old.”  Tiff- do you know how refreshing it is to hear somebody say-”I can’t be in a relationship right now–I’m ONLY 22!”  WHAT?!?  So when you all were feeling sorry for us not having money and blaming it on our sins–NOW I can see how amazing it was that we were able to do what we did, with such limited resources and NOT depending on the state or church welfare.  We did have a couple of “angels” help us out once when our fridge had defrosted and we had no food or extra $$ to replenish it–even without me paying tithing!  And you and other family helped.  So, yeah, we spent money on alcohol–not even at bars, just the cheapest crap you could find.  But can you SEE….that wasn’t the problem.  And out here everybody drinks.  It’s such a part of the college experience–we have this “Spring Fling” which is basically all the clubs get together and there’s booths and vendors and everybody starts drinking at 10 am and skip all their classes and it’s a big party.  HUH?  Tiff, have you ever HEARD of this before?  It’s like in the movies!  PG13 movies, of course….

And then after BJ graduated we decided to move to Philadelphia–bustin’ out of Utah in our little Honda Civic and whatever we could fit in it.  Coming straight out of school, I borrowed money from mom and dad.  We moved into an empty apartment and every dollar we earned had to go towards basic necessities–silverware, soap, towels, dishes–as well as paying the parents back.  I repaid them, then as we were just about to get ahead I decided it was MY TIME to go to school, and BJ supports me.  So yeah…you can look at it as I can’t “manage” money….or that under the circumstances we’re doing pretty damn well.  Most of the clothes I wear were given to me, my bed used to belong to an 8 year old boy, my silverware was $6 bucks from Ikea, my LoveSac is from my brother, we found a TV on the street and another was given to us (people have a lot of extra tvs, btw)–our biggest *splurge* thus far is a $300 kitchen table from Target.  And again, we’ve had help–my boss from Weight Watchers has been like a mother to us out here, and I really would have no clothes or shoes if she hadn’t given me her extras.  I have paid no tithing, I still drink coffee and alcohol–but I’ve had many blessings.  So here we are, back in school, paying for it ourselves (I didn’t qualify for a grant because I registered too late in the year) –hardly any extra money–but we’re doing the best we can under the circumstances.  Which is all I could expect of somebody with 6 kids, as well.  Supporting all of them is unreasonable.  That’s why I’m looking at the SYSTEM, and not just my parents.

And frankly, I’m angry that I got married so young.  Well, that’s not true.  I’m not angry that I got married so young, I’m angry that I (and the culture) thought I was SO OLD when I did it.  That when I turned 21 my other option was a mission (because I wasn’t married yet)–even though I wasn’t even going to church.  Or that when I got married everybody breathed a sigh of relief.  I would not take back the last 10 years of my life- for anything….I just think that nobody is really ready at that age.  And young couples are unknowingly being used, entwining themselves with the church forever.

 Tiff: “Our mother was a great mother in “mormon standards” she was at home made dinner, nutured all her kids. But she also made big on the “outside world” she was an avide sports fan and loved to play racket ball, she was an avid volunteer for groups that didnt’ involve mormons or church, She held her own partys inlo of her husband who hated parties. So to you I say women don’t sit around like a cardboard cut out in their homes doing what the “white man” tells them. If anything I think its the oppisite. Women are telling their husband whats going on what activities their going to do tonight . Women are making time for themselfves to fullfil their creatvitiy and imagination and knowlege.”

Me: Yes, I absolutely agree with all of this about mom–and I can see I never made that clear.  In fact, mom was a great mother, she did sacrifice a LOT to be one.  She dropped out of college to have us.  She volunteered and is an amazing organizer and planner, she has always exercised and is stronger than probably all of us.  But even she will tell you that isn’t “normal”?  She made an extra effort to be involved in the community outside of church and to take time for herself.  She was a great example.  In fact, the Mormon church gives women many responsibilities–and leadership roles as well.  (Lots of responsibility, no authority).  These women could run a company like nobody’s business.  Technically, I guess, they do.  My problem with that is that they are working these jobs for FREE.  And sacrificing their entire lives to build up this organization.  I guess if anything, it’s good experience.  Only not something you can put on a resume.  I’m just sayin’.

Tiff: “I’m going to school so that I can have a great career and that I can fulfil myself by helping others in social work. I make quilts with my husband, I paint with my son, I volunteer out side of church duties. I have a Kid (GASP) what the hell is so wrong with kids?? side note i HAVE NEVER FELT PRESSURED OR PUSHED IN TO HAVING KIDS. I have one kid and thats fine with me for now. I’ve never been told that I need to have more kids. There really is nothing in this world that is more selfless and that fulfills you as much as taking care of a child and teaching him about life and love and teaching him to be him selves and to listen to his voice inside and fulfil his own destiney. To experience life with him and be childlike with him. I can’t wait to watch him grow up and and be a valuable part of society.”

Me: That’s great to hear you are going to school!  Starting in the fall? Yahoo!  And I don’t have any problems with the kids that are born–your little guy is ADORABLE.  I love him to death and I always will.  And your big guy too!  How many Mormon men help their wives make quilts?  He is one of my favorites.  And I love all my little sisters kids.  Maybe you forgot that part of your temple wedding–that little commandment to “Multiply and Replenish the Earth”? Or really any of your Young Woman/Sunday School/General Conference/Relief Society meetings that deal with motherhood…and motherhood only.  I also wonder (I could be wrong here…tell me what you think)  how much more pressure you would be receiving if your husband was at church with you every Sunday?  My point is (for all Utah–not you)….why so fast?  Why so young?  Why not….wait?  Even just 4 years?  That’s all I’m asking for.  What is that going to hurt?  Get through college, then have kids when you have a career, when you can afford it?  I know this is a radical concept to you, and everyone out there, Tiff–but people here do it all the time.  And when you emphasize the self-lessness of having children, you are implying the selfishness of not having children.  I am not selfish for choosing to not have children right now.  That’s another repeated theme for the last 10 years.  There is nothing wrong with me wanting to wait until I’m ready.

Tiff: “I don’t fill like i’m a mouth and a vagina and thats all i need to be. thats the most degrading thing I’ve ever heard.”

Me:  I know, I was shocked myself when I said it.  Hey, if you ever see a link for a clip called “Two Girls, One Cup”–DO NOT CLICK ON IT.  It is not a video about learning to share.  Or at least, not anything you would want to share.  Wow. Moving on.

Tiff: ”If you feel that you are or you should be then i’m sorry you feel that way, truly sorry. Last point, you know The Secret when they talk about how you shouldn’t be against a cause but for a cause. So instead of “anti war” you should be “pro peace”. Well how can someone who thinks a whole state(utah) is one big fars and the LDS religion is all about money and surpressing women and all this negative crap yet you let it CONSUME you.”

Me:  This is fair.  This is one thing about leaving the LDS religion–it’s so much More than a religion, it’s not even funny.  It is very hard to re-wire your brain to think differently.  This is one thing that Mormons (I used to) use as another “proof” that that the church is true:  when people leave they can’t really “leave.”  This is why there are many people who don’t have testimonies of the church but stay in it.  It’s a long, hard path out.  Most are atheist, or agnostic at the end, or they go back because they don’t know what else to do–or it’s just easier.  Especially in Utah, you lose all kinds of networking contacts, family may dis-own you, your whole life is basically turned inside out.  In fact–I wouldn’t leave the church unless you were really really really serious about it.  Mormons are taught that people leave because they want to do a sinful behavior, so they do the behavior and then make up other reasons.  It’s not that simple, but it’s a good story.  I believed it.  They also believe that when you leave, (or are excommunicated) your countenance changes and you actually appear “darker.”  I like to say I’m just “tan”….hahahah.  ACTUALLY that is the most ironic thing, is this past few months I’ve had more people just randomly say how much lighter I look.  Weird.

And I LOVE the comment by Huatusca regarding the Church’s anti-gay-marriage stance and support.  Why didn’t they put all their effort on strengthening families instead?  That is an excellent point. 

Tiff: The website is supposed to be about positive things like sexy, healthy, wealthy it suggest pro peace inside of you. however its all about the LDS faith and how ridiculous and manipulative and stupid it is. Its all you talk about its all you think about, I don’t get it. So being sexy healthy and wealthy means i should hate the LDS religion.”

Me:  Actually when I bought this domain name, I intended to do something related to weight loss, since that is my background.  Then I started blogging about my thoughts, or discoveries….and so I can see how it might look like (to you) being sexy healthy wealthy means you should hate the LDS religion, but I prefer to speak the truth of it.  I’m just trying to figure out and analyze economic and/or oppressive systems and see how they function.  This just happens to be the only one I know of.  I’m sure I’ll move on to other things, I just type it as it comes to me. 

Tiff: “For someone who dispisses something so much you sure are giving it a lot of power over you. Which is sad because your all about empowering your self but yet you seem to be so lost in the LDS faith and in trying to disprove it rather then finding your self which is what your all about.”

Me: Sigh. Unfortunately it is such a big part of me–and especially moving to Philly and people asking me Utah/Mormon questions every day.  If I took out this part of me….I wouldn’t have anything to say regarding the last 30 years of my life.  But I really feel like I’ve now been given this tool to look at and question all systems, which is a good thing.  I know, Tiffy Poo Poo, radical concept.  It is very strange to not know what to think, when everything’s been laid out for you before.  I don’t know what’s real?  But I intend to find it.  Or at least the things that make me happy, my true authentic self and not playing a role, or pretending.

Tiff: “Crystal all i can say is you do have some good points I agree”

Me: THANKS!  Which ones, now?

Tiff: “ but that is where my free agency comes in I choice to listen to somethings and I choice to not listen and listen to myself when it comes to religion. I have choice I have not followed the religion to a “T”. I never once was told I had to date a RM and I never did. I was told not to have sex but I made a choice and did rebel but i was not outcast or punished. I have chosen everything I do in my life, I’m not dictated by “white Man”. I don’t follow blindy and you shouldn’t have either. So am I a latter day saint who does have agency who does have the spirit, which everyone does have. I believe somethings are true in my faith and other things I question but thats ok i’m not banned or deemed evil for my questions and for anyone who was i’m sorry.”

ME:  Okay, for the record—YOU WENT THERE.  I wasn’t going to use personal stuff on this blog, but you are a prime example of this, Tiff.  You didn’t see all the comments I received on this from a Woman’s Ex-LDS yahoo group, but one in particular was cool (well they all are–it’s nice knowing I’m not alone):

Valerie: “I was commenting about choice in the class and there was a High Priest who kept going on about how fortunate we were to have the right to choose.. and I wanted him to clarify what choice actually meant from the point of view of the church… and I said, “Well do you think that we have the freedom of choice to actually choose the wrong?”  and he paused and looked at me… mumbled a bit… didn’t know what to say…and I said, “Well I think you mean that we have freedom of choice BUT we actually don’t have the freedom to choose wrong if we are in the church.”  And he said, “Well… hmmm…. yes…. that’s it…. your right.”     Quiet in the classroom……. I laughed….. that was many years ago…. “

Me: So, Tiff–let’s be honest here.  Yes, you “made a choice” to start having sex.  How old were you, again…15?  And what was that you said when we asked you about it?  You flat out lied.  You lied.  Your sisters sat you down and said, Okay, Tiff, you can tell US.  We won’t tell ANYBODY.  You can trust us.  But did you?  NO.  Why?  What were you afraid of?  Being “outcast, punished, banned, or deemed evil?”  Because those were your options, weren’t they?  While the rest of us were getting in trouble just for coming home late (and not doing drugs, alcohol, or sex)…YOU knew how to play the game.  Your curfew was at 11, and you would skate in at 10:45.  There were years of your life that you performed, Tiffany, BE REAL.  You HAD to.  You had to play the part of the Molly Mormon, knowing full well that you had a secret.  Somehow you never got pregnant (?) or any diseases (?) because you didn’t believe in condoms.  You know what happens to those who tell, in their bishop interviews.  BJ was dis-fellowshipped for being honest in high school.  He couldn’t take the sacrament, sing in the ward choir, or graduate from seminary.  And everybody knows.  You can’t even hide your shame.  Our cousin (girl) was ex-communicated for living with her boyfriend–even though they weren’t having sex, it was the appearance of it that got her.  Ex-communication is a spiritual execution–and who is in charge of all that?  You would have had to tell not just ONE white male, but a few of them…in explicit detail, mind you….of exactly what, who, and where.  So yeah, you had a choice.  And you wisely chose to protect yourself.  And I don’t blame you one bit, Tiff.  That’s not what this is about.  I question the SYSTEM.

Another thing is you are taught that to have sex is “rebelling”….I’ve found that out here they call that “normal.”  My therapist says that in school they were actually given bananas and condoms and taught how to put them on….hahaha can you imagine?  Just a picture of a condom on a banana at Southern Utah University newspaper threw the whole school in a tizzy fit for a year.  I think the collective conservative business department’s head exploded (without a condom)(they just don’t know how dangerous that is). 

One last thing on this–your hubby was going to get baptized, you couldn’t wait that long, so ya’ll got married to have sex (of course you would have been married anyway–just maybe not as quickly?)(And I’m glad you did–love that guy!) …which is nothing shocking or extreme or unusual out there.  Everybody does that.  How else are you going to have sex?  What’s the point in being engaged longer than 3 months after you’ve just met?  It’s such a different world.  The point is - yes, you have the freedom to choose the right.

Tiff: “I love you sis i just think you should find your self with out religion and be “Pro Peace”.”

Me:  Love you too, and I like the Pro-Truth idea (Thanks Huatusca).  Because I feel free- and strangely enough, more peaceful than ever. 

Thanks, Tiffy Poo Poo…..tell your little guy hi for me.  He kind of reminds me of this kid:

 <this old pic is just a few of our siblings….we like to squish each other for some reason…good times…>